Hi xname, Could you go into more detail on why you don't consider gpg a useful tool? I use it a lot to communicate sensitive info when there is no chance of meeting people in person (like when working with indymedia where server admins live all over the world). I would consider it a very practical useful sysadmin tool, especially for resistance!

It is likely that what is "useful" is different depending on what one _does_, no?

it all depends in what skills/jobs we are talking about... if you want to be a secretary you only need to know how to manage open office... "Get a job" is totally dependent the which job we are talking about and the skills of the people that attend the etc. I personally think that the etc can be a place to share what we know, just that, and not a plac e where we give workshops depending on the job market. The official education (at least in uruguay) is doing more than what is possibly to have workers machines and not people that think.

This sounds good also with respect to the other developers, I think its also useful to take a look at past /etc's reports before /etc05, this has copies of the evaluations from the past participants e.g from belgrade, croatia etc. So rather than wasting time reinventing the wheel, see also how these issues and strategies have also been discussed by the /etc...GCA as we are different from vocational, Education and Traning programmes. I joined the /etc because draws together diverse ideas, skills and ways of living, which i belive need to be rediscovered and developed in order to empower us to provide for our needs beyond economic rationalism.

--_ You are now talking on #opensores
--- ChanServ gives channel operator status to xname
_xname_ :
_xname_ *
_acracia_ hi sweety
_acracia_ i'm settin gup a blender workshop at riereta
_acracia_ for february
_acracia_ sometimes, for being a bigger frog, you have to make the puddle bigger
_xname_ hey
_xname_ are you already a geek in blender?
_acracia_ hehehe i like blander, but it makes me too abstract
_acracia_ i mean, abstract formal beauty is easier there than reality
_acracia_ i don't like that
_acracia_ i wanna work with tools where reality is important already, you don't have to fake it
_acracia_ but the way the program treats your desires shapes your work, don't you think?
_acracia_ i mean, you do "what you want", but you want to do some things because doing them is nicer that others....
_xname_ i like abstract
_xname_ but i prefer when there is a kind of allusion
_xname_ to a shape
_xname_ or when the allusion concerns more then one shape
_xname_ so you have an animated meaning
_acracia_ yep
_xname_ from what is suggested to you
_xname_ to what you perceive
_acracia_ yet i like to have control onto the reality i'm shaping hehehe
_acracia_ and that's freaking easier with blender
_acracia_ soemtimes i'll like to have loop slaves like rodin... well maybe i just mean actors
_xname_ yes
_acracia_ jejeje
--_ reni (~reni@hornet.mur.at) has joined #opensores
_reni_ hey
_acracia_ eiiii
_reni_ trallalalai
_reni_ :-))
_acracia_ upppps turiruriruuuuuu
_reni_ wwwwwwwwwwwrz
_acracia_ ok, done
_acracia_ ejeje
_acracia_ how are you?
_reni_ tati, sweathaert
_reni_ oi, freezing, minus 15
_reni_ but apart great :-)
_reni_ and you?
_acracia_ good
_acracia_ frenetic about this caracas trollparty
_reni_ coll
_acracia_ going there on friday
_reni_ ai...caracas!
_acracia_ 10 days of install party
_acracia_ during wsf
_reni_ you are indeed a traveler
_reni_ very good
_reni_ i start wruting down some ideas for the audiovisual bazar
_reni_ do you have an account at drupal.site
_acracia_ yep
_acracia_ admin one
_acracia_ jejejej
_acracia_ ;)
_reni_ cool :-))
_reni_ i really like this idea that you, ele and me do a baazr
_acracia_ i didn't had the time to answer xname's and your mail but we were talking here
_acracia_ about who to give the workshop to
_acracia_ i mean
_acracia_ sorry poor english
_acracia_ jejeje
_acracia_ i mean
_acracia_ we have to get hundreds of romanina grrrls!!!
_reni_ i understand you (i think jejejew:-))
_acracia_ romanian
_reni_ yes
_reni_ i think, we really have to make it VERY clear what shall happen
_reni_ otherwise it is in vane
_reni_ and we only frustrate them
_acracia_ i thin kwe should go for basic independent knowledge units
_reni_ so i think, we have to "limit" what we do,to a certain amount of topics
_acracia_ yes
_acracia_ but i think it will be useless if we give them to european free software artists and producers
_reni_ yes
_xname_ yeah
_xname_ hi
_reni_ hey
_acracia_ hi xname
_xname_ basic indipendent units is good
_acracia_ i mean.... we should get out of the arts getto there
_acracia_ and go to the streets
_acracia_ look for grrls on the streets
_reni_ crucial
_acracia_ it's not the same that in austria
_xname_ true
_xname_ maybe each unit should be repeated on different days
_reni_ right, it is really different
_xname_ like two hours html every day
_acracia_ and between us, we should do more a project for the rest of the year... making profits from the fact that we are very well connected onto our local places
_xname_ two hours editing video every day
_xname_ and radio all day for one week
_acracia_ yes
_reni_ ah, yes!
_acracia_ radio workshop can be permanent and people be able to change places
_xname_ yep
_reni_ yep
_acracia_ archiving... audio edition... talking... music
_xname_ also fanzine might be interesting there
_acracia_ hmmm true
_acracia_ fanzne
_xname_ to push autoproductions and so on
_acracia_ ohmygod how i did think about fanzine!!!
_reni_ yes, do a whle circle
_reni_ whole
_xname_ indipendent communication
_xname_ simple text editing
_xname_ like html
_reni_ little production units
_xname_ with a very little skill
_reni_ very good
_xname_ you can already do a lot
_xname_ if you have your content
_reni_ and i like to combine it with content, not only tech stuff
_xname_ you don't even need a software or a special computer
_acracia_ yes
_acracia_ i wanted to teach how to do simple video edition
_xname_ just a text editor and what you want to say
_xname_ good
_acracia_ like videos from digital cameras, adding some text ... pictures
_xname_ perfect
_acracia_ with kino
_reni_ great
_xname_ ok
_acracia_ then you can upload very interesting contents and not many work
_xname_ we show them final cut as well
_acracia_ and teaching about p2p related diffusion
_xname_ if someone is interested
_reni_ the same works with audio
_acracia_ how to spread a 1GB video, by example
_reni_ yes
_xname_ maybe we can propose them to make a website for romanian girls
_reni_ and we needs amnuals
_reni_ manuals
_acracia_ and i think we should have some howtos on
_acracia_ yep
_xname_ to exchange knowledge
_xname_ job and house search
_xname_ and useful staff
_acracia_ we should spend lot of time doing messaging i think
_reni_ yup, and sharing work - production cyvles...
_acracia_ changing adresses and sharing irc
_acracia_ then they can come by when they need a second step
_acracia_ and we should have a clear inventory or our available services
_reni_ yes, e have to create this atmosphere, that they dare to
_xname_ we can keep on assisting them from the distance
_xname_ if they get used to irc
_xname_ and mails
_acracia_ like i said to xname: we can offer streaming channels... maybe somebody can offer an ftp space
_xname_ hum
_reni_ we can use that already during the etc - chatting,a nd answering questions only there
_xname_ i will think of it
_xname_ there is sister server
_reni_ theyx do not even ahve any acces to the net right now
_acracia_ oh it's true
_reni_ so, we have to start 2 steps before that
_xname_ there could be a subdomain for romanian girls
_acracia_ ueeeeeeeeeeeeeee
_xname_ :
_xname_ )
_reni_ :-)
_reni_ i am working on the fact that
_reni_ they should dom some resaerch on local net
_reni_ to know how to solve it
_acracia_ hmmm audio and video edition tehn
_acracia_ then
_reni_ for longer than the the ets is there
_acracia_ more than radio
_reni_ i stil think: both
_reni_ but we ave to be aware: no broadband
_acracia_ ok
_reni_ we can do it locally
--- acracia gives channel operator status to reni
_acracia_ ok
_reni_ and i hope we get a line there ... in time :-)
_acracia_ jejejeje yes
_acracia_ it will be useful
_acracia_ hehheee
_acracia_ we should have our wireless grrrls for this time already!
_acracia_ :S
_reni_ oh yeah
_acracia_ ufff cuánto nos queda por hacer!
_acracia_ jajajaja
_reni_ :-)
_reni_ es siempre asi
_acracia_ eso es lo bueno!
_acracia_ jejeje
_acracia_ que siempre hay más
_acracia_ que nunca es lo mismo!
_acracia_ jejejeje
_reni_ :-)
_reni_ so...
_reni_ if you think of software: what do you want to bring?
_acracia_ we should go for eternal knowledge
_reni_ ok :-)
_xname_ i agree
_reni_ audacity
_reni_ maybe rezound
_acracia_ not brandy stuff... just simple and worthy knowledge time
_xname_ lets try to teach software indipendent skills
_acracia_ yes
_reni_ yes
_acracia_ audacity is a must, we see
_xname_ we let them understand that if you know how to use one software
_reni_ i think, it is very "typical"
_xname_ the others are easy
_reni_ yes
_xname_ audacity is good
_reni_ that was my idea also
_reni_ yes, very easy understandable
_acracia_ then... simpel pic edition is neeeded?
_acracia_ like gimp basics?
_xname_ yes
_reni_ cool
_xname_ gimp yes
_acracia_ making logos and playing
_acracia_ we can do it along with the imaging production of the event
_reni_ also good for html then...
_xname_ audacity gimp muse
_xname_ maybe openoffice
_reni_ and for video? do you use lives?
_xname_ uhm
_acracia_ like making a group of grrrls in charge of destrooing our digitalpics crop
_acracia_ in video i'll go for kino
_reni_ ok
_xname_ kino and final cut
_acracia_ simple, capable
_xname_ for video
_xname_ and some vjing
_xname_ if girls ask for that
_acracia_ dunno about final cut
_xname_ i am the master
_acracia_ vjing yeah, but that's part of the party-brandy stuff
_xname_ not because of finel cut
_xname_ but because maybe they need to get professional
_xname_ and work with it
_reni_ ok, reat
_reni_ ok, great
_xname_ and if you go asking for a job as a video editor
_acracia_ yeah, that's true
_xname_ and you don't know what final cut is
_acracia_ but you know how i think about propietary soft
_xname_ people will laught
_xname_ i agree with you acracia
_acracia_ no no no
_acracia_ i was not saying that kino is a professional editor... i just offered it as a "unit"
_xname_ but i would like the girls to be on the same opinion
_xname_ kino is fine
_acracia_ and maybe you can't teach how to use final cut in three days
_xname_ i just show it
_reni_ well.you can show it and give an idea
_xname_ basically i am able to teach it in one day
_acracia_ but of course kino is not good for professinoal edition
_acracia_ YET
_acracia_ jeje
_acracia_ okokok
_acracia_ perfect then
_xname_ it is to give an overview
_xname_ if girls are interested
_xname_ they will find their way
_xname_ hopefully in open source
_acracia_ i was doing the "artivist" again... i mean... i thought about "doing some little clips for local imcs"
_reni_ probably most know too little to be able to choose...
_acracia_ but independence is more important
_xname_ exactly reni
_acracia_ yes
_xname_ but i am not going to impose my choice
_xname_ well acracia
_reni_ no, i will just make it clear
_reni_ my choice, i mean :-)
_xname_ sure :)
_acracia_ ejjejee
_xname_ and we leave there material
_acracia_ yes
_acracia_ printed material
_reni_ yes
_xname_ knoppix ubunto dyne
_xname_ etc
_xname_ and informations
_xname_ and links
_acracia_ ei some of us have access to free print services?
_reni_ yes, a lot of information
_reni_ not me
_acracia_ we should give a little book maybe... i was thinking about this people openmute
_reni_ aeh, not yet :-)
_xname_ not really
_xname_ ehy thats an idea
_xname_ a book
_reni_ openmute?
_acracia_ we can do pretty books at 1.48 pounds
_xname_ great
_reni_ good idea
_acracia_ we send them the pdfs
_acracia_ and it's POD, print on demand
_acracia_ we can print maybe 50
_acracia_ and then 5
_xname_ sounds cool
_acracia_ about genderchangers, why the etc, resources etc
_reni_ sounds perfect
_acracia_ let me look for the link
_acracia_ but surely our london tentacles know about it
_acracia_ specially bastudis hehehe
_acracia_ bastubis
_reni_ :-))
_reni_ she will come to romania
_acracia_ ttp://www.openmute.org/
_acracia_ http://www.openmute.org/

_acracia_ OpenMute POD allows you to print books in numbers from 1 to 100+ at a fixed price of just £1.34 per book. Instead of having to fork out a lot of money at the start of your book project you just pay as you print.
_acracia_ POD is a professional digital printing method that offers high quality black and white print bound with colour covers. POD has existed in the corporate sector, at a high price, but only now with new web services has it become accessible and affordable to the public. In combination with the web, POD takes all the headache out of print setup and delivery to the printers. It makes sales and distribution simpler, too.
_reni_ super
_xname_ i think we can make a book before
_xname_ and one after
_acracia_ ueeeeeeeeeee
_acracia_ :*:*:* xname
_reni_ yeeeah!
_acracia_ ok, so... scribus???
_acracia_ jejeje
_xname_ but the one before should have some translations to romanian
_xname_ maybe tibor can help
_reni_ mhm
_xname_ the more tech staff
_reni_ maybe also nita
_reni_ she really wnats to do more
_xname_ and our philosophy
_acracia_ yes
_reni_ she will be in rome on sunday
_xname_ cool
_reni_ ask her :-)
_acracia_ xname: how long you'll stay in rome?
_xname_ well
_xname_ i am in milano
_acracia_ ndarossa is streaming ogg now!!!
_reni_ ahja, sorry
_xname_ yep i know
_xname_ put her in contact with tizzja
_reni_ i guess they are...
_xname_ and the book after could be a report on what happened there
_xname_ with some articles about the situation
_reni_ wow, that would be superreat
_xname_ and interviews with the girls
_xname_ and some pictures
_reni_ phone rings...
_acracia_ hmmmm
_xname_ anyway
_xname_ there is the idea of making a documentary
_xname_ about the next etc
_xname_ well, actually i have this idea
_xname_ and acracia would like to help me
_xname_ so
_acracia_ yep
_xname_ i think i will ask the girls interested in video
_xname_ to help me
_xname_ so i will teach them also camera work
_reni_ it is a very good idea, really, very necesary
_acracia_ oh that will be perfect
_xname_ and other things
_reni_ writing the own hsitroy
_reni_ writing the own history
_acracia_ oh
_acracia_ yeah
_xname_ thats it
_xname_ i do not want to make an european high tech documentary
_xname_ with tecno music and so on
_xname_ i prefer them to be the voice of it
_xname_ a friend of mine
_xname_ in rome
_xname_ silvia from 'spegnilatv'
_xname_ which is in english 'switch off tv'
_xname_ one of the tele streets
_reni_ :-))
_reni_ ah, ok
_xname_ used to teach a lot in rome
_xname_ camera work
_xname_ and how to tell your story
_xname_ she worked with kids
_xname_ in subhurban areas
_xname_ i told her about the /etc
_xname_ she is interested
_reni_ cool!!!
_xname_ and i think she could something nice there
_reni_ sounds wonerful!
_xname_ and she can come to the meeting since she lives in rome
_reni_ even better
_xname_ so we have the telestreets in
_reni_ yeah!
_reni_ revolution!
_xname_ and a little troupe for the movie
_xname_ :D
_xname_ also the romanian girls are into video right?
_acracia_ ueeeeeeeee
_reni_ yes, they are
_xname_ ok cool
_xname_ so we have to connect
_xname_ and find a collaboration strategy
_xname_ i will invite silvia on the list
_reni_ yes that seems crucial to me
_acracia_ good
_xname_ and she will introduce herself
_reni_ good
_reni_ the romanians are stil very shy, so to say...
_reni_ i am trying to convinve them to start chatting
_reni_ hopefully...
_acracia_ ueee we have this new lounge now
_acracia_ do you like the name, reni?
_acracia_ :D:D:
_reni_ :-))
_reni_ very much :-))
--- acracia has changed the topic to: shake-alike
_reni_ :-)))
_acracia_ jejeje
_xname_ i will save this log
_acracia_ ok
_xname_ to many ideas are in
_reni_ cool1
_reni_ cool! yes
_xname_ i do not want to lose it

_xname_ i do not want to lose it
_reni_ ah, btw: i am at esc now: if you look at http://esc.mur.at/esc-gallery/
_acracia_ how come you turn logging offff????
_reni_ you see where i "am"
_acracia_ you are less anal retentive than i thought
_acracia_ If youd like to talk more or get a free quote for your POD, then please get in touch: services@metamute.org
_acracia_ OpenMute services include:
_acracia_ * Document preparation and delivery to the POD printer
_acracia_ * Customer online ordering and delivery service
_acracia_ * Integration into an existing web site
_acracia_ * Consultancy and training
_acracia_ * Integration into an existing web site
_reni_ thats really cool, i can use that ofr another project right away...
_acracia_ yes, is very interesting
_xname_ autoproduction rocks
_reni_ yep
_acracia_ this people is kinda arty but they work fine on london i think... they give internet to rampart
_acracia_ and are with creative commons ppl
_acracia_ ei xname i think i showed you a book about licenses
_acracia_ on norway
_acracia_ it was printed by them
_xname_ i remember
_xname_ it was cool
_acracia_ and the precarious reader is the other format available
_xname_ /we had fun there/
_acracia_ yeah!

what software you planning to use for simple video-editing?

with our big streaming ring we can arrange different streaming channels for everybody.

After some hours of workshop we'll be able to s[c]tream our voices from any internet connection, at any time.

More info:

http://r23.cc/community

Public key:
gpg --keyserver keyserver.mine.nu --recv-keys 881B3C2D

there must be a way